Where are they Now?

[Mark Shears]

Well done guys - that seems to put to bed 818 AOA.

Now as Bruce asks "what happened to 405 FXO"? And what is the story behind it?

Cheers

Mark

[E Jeffries]

I seem to remember that the Stapletons sold 405 FXO and it went to South Africa but returned to England some years later. Bruce, did you keep record of the chassis number on 405 FXO? I believe that car wore several registration numbers, so your record of the chassis number will make the picture clear for folks to see.

Eric

[E Jeffries]

Below is an example of how the registration numbers were switched on some of the racing Morgans. Note the chassis number is the same, 4840, but the car has three different registration numbers.



Here you can see Super Sports #4840 started life in May 1961 as XRX 1. The car was registered to Richard Shepherd-Baron. This is a copy of the registration allocation record on file at the Kithead Trust, the DVLA archivist.






Here in June 1962, Super Sports #4840 is now carrying the TOK 258 registration. Source - Morgan Sports Car Club and ACO archives.






In June 1964, Super Sports #4840 registration was changed to JHX 142B.

[John Clarke]

The early days of TOK 258 have been well researched and documented by Jake Alderson and Chris Chapman. From their excellent book "Morgan Sports Cars The Heritage Years 1954-60":-

"page 139" Red high line Plus 4 "TOK 258" chassis 3464, Engine No TS 8829. Despatched April 5th 1956 to Birmingham agent Henry Garner Ltd. Purchased by Jeff Parker-Eaton and appeared at SUNBAC race meeting, Silverstone on 1st Sept 1956.

"page 233" June 1958 - purchased by Chris Lawrence from Performance Cars Ltd West London. Spec still as owned by Parker-Eaton.

What happened next is also well documented up to 1960 in the same book. Car still red and highline. What happens next? we may have to wait for Jake and Chris's new book........

What everyone might want to consider is that chassis numbers and registration Plates on Morgans do not always help to identify a car. I ran into a similar problem with researching the 38/39 Le Mans car - ultimately, I had to rely on contemporary interviews with drivers, garage owners and mechanics to try and piece together what was actually going on....together with photographs from private collections. The 3 wheelers were even worse.....apparently.....so don't jump to any conclusions and we can leave this thread running with impunity as its all fascinating stuff.

[Bob Bull]

its all fascinating stuff.

Fascinating!!!!!!

Is it time for bed yet.

Bob.

[Mark Shears]

Well I agree with John it's all fascinating stuff - even if it puts Bob to sleep!

Before I go to sleep I would love to know what happened to JHX?

Any thoughts Eric?

Cheers

Mark

[Bruce Stapleton]

To answer a few questions.
Yes as far as i remember BarMoCo as it was also known was in the area of Golders Green. Also I seem to recall.John Wingfield, who I happened to be at school with where we built a Ford 10 special together which is of no importance whatsoever, joined up later with Gerry to form Marshall Wingfield.

Eric, the log book is interesting. Just to throw a spanner in the works, this looks like a new log book issued in 1964 for that reg no and would have gone with a new car originally. If it had been XRX 1 and then re numbered the book would state XRX 1 and then be crossed out by hand and the new reg No written in with a date stamp. The same should apply to any changes of number that TOK went through and would have been on the original book for TOK. When the list of owners became to many for the space allowed on the book, they issued a continuation book which was overstamped with those words so this book isn't one of those. Unfortunately I don't remember if this was the book we had at the time or if we had a TOK book with the change to JHX written in.

We did not keep any chassis # records of cars we sold until March 1970, mainly as no one was interested then! Of course because of this it was easy to swop things back and forwards especially if you were going racing abroad. The Carnets that you needed were a nightmare and anything that made it easier was worth doing. If you had a carnet for a car from the year before but you wanted to take another then, hey wasn't that easy!

We have 405 FXO (which DID have a XRX 1 book!) listed as being sold to a Gus Moody who had a number of cars from us but he was not a racing man. The main car that went to SA and then came back was with Henderson( James?) who raced it there a number of times and I think that's fairly well known. Wasn't that the XRX Basil Fielding /Daimler 2.5 car?
No doubt this will ramble on..............

[E Jeffries]

Darn,I just wrote a long-winded reply but inadvertently pressed the wrong button and lost it. I'll try to re-write and post later this evening after I've finished a few pending obligations. But in the meantime, so Mark can get to sleep, JHX still exists. I've owned the car for several years.

Eric

[Mark Shears]

Bruce, you are right. Steve Spencer bought the ex: Hon Basil Feiding car back from South Africa - still fitted with the Daimler V8 engine. (It was re-registered XRX 1I think around 1987.)

Thank you for letting me know Eric that JHX is in your safe hands. I can sleep easy now!

Night all!

Mark

[E Jeffries]

Bruce and Mark - Thank you for refreshing my memory about the car that went to South Africa and for the great historical insight. I haven't thought about this stuff for a while so I need to dust off the mental cobwebs.

Pip Arnold owned two cars that were registered XRX 1. It's so cool to learn that his first XRX 1 (not to be confused with #4840, the first car to be registered XRX 1) became 405 FXO. I knew that car had been given a new registration, and thought it might have been 405 FXO, but I wasn't certain until I read your post.

When Pip bought his new low bodied Super Sports (the car that later went to South Africa), he transferred the XRX 1 registration from his old high bodied car and sold that car to John Dangerfield. John Dangerfield had the high bodied car for a short time, wrecked it in practice at Brands Hatch, had it repaired and then subsequently sold it Terry Sanger. Neither John nor Terry could remember the car's new registration number, but they knew that it had been previously registered TOK 258 and XRX 1 (it was the 2nd TOK 258 and then became XRX 1 when its registration was swapped with Super Sports #4840, the first car registered XRX 1 and the 3rd TOK 258). I have a photo of Terry Sanger driving Pip's old high bodied car at Mallory Park, but the new 405 FXO registration number isn't visible in the photo. Bruce, did you buy the car from Terry?

Regarding the green JHX 142B logbook, I agree that when Christopher Lawrence sold #4840 to Adrian Dence in 1964, the new logbook should have noted the car's prior registrations and history. I doesn't. Christopher Lawrence wanted to keep the TOK 258 registration, so he went to the DVLA and somehow obtained a "new" logbook for the car. This is the logbook that I have and it shows Adrian Dence as the first owner of the car beginning in June 1964. It's the same logbook the car had when Adrian sold it to Bruce's family.

[John Clarke]

I had to rely on contemporary interviews with drivers, garage owners and mechanics to try and piece together what was actually going on

Of course, Chris Lawrence has written an excellent biog "Morgan Maverick" which throws some light on his LawrenceTune cars. Chris's adopted registration plate "TOK 258" appeared in many variations and so for that matter did XRX 1.

To quote from Chris's book - (a must read for all us +4 types)

On TOK 258:-

P74 1960, Peter Morgan generously took TOK 258 into the factory and gave it a new chassis, new front frame and 90% new style body and total repaint. Still red.

P84 1962 fitting the lowline 4/4 body work with Williams and Prichard ali hard top and painting it maroon. After '62 Le Mans practice went back to the factory to be painted green.

P88 1962; Peter Morgan leant the first +4 Supersports GWP 170 to take to Le Mans. Chris states this was the first factory supersports sold with full factory guarantee. As an aside, Chris states that all those prior to ’62 are not supersports (but that’s for another thread!!).

On XRX 1

P74 1960 Chris was having some business issues and TOK was impounded just when Richard Shepherd-Baron appeared on the scene. Chris arranged through the factory for a new Morgan to be supplied – XRX1 for him and Richard to race. XRX 1 was painted light blue.

P75 XRX 1 had been entered into the 1961 Le Mans race. This is the time that after successfully completing scrutineering, the entry was quashed, allegedly due to protests from Triumph.

P85 By ’62 Le Mans, XRX1 had been sold to Pip Arnold minus the 22 gallon tank that was fitted to TOK 258.

P120 1964 – All 4 SLRs (Triumph and 3 Morgans) built on existing cars. Pip Arnolds XRX1 was first Morgan to receive SLR body and entered first race with polished ali body, Gordon Spice’s was next – “totally destroying” bodywork on first outing at Goodwood and Chris’s "own car" GWP 170 finished last – on which he put the registration plate TOK 258 (see page 116).

[Guy Loveridge]

WOW!

Fair play to you all, chaps!

Jake and Chris are well on the way to foing the "next" volume indeed. As I published both the last volume of theirs "The Heritage Years", AND Morgan Maverick (Thanks for the kind words John!) I'm taking an interest here! I Hope they might let me publish their next volume too!

As an additional - there is a lovely man about 12 miles from Malvern who owns a +4, re-registered, but with the "original" ACE numberplate TOK 258 - and a chassis with hand drilled exhaust runs through the side-members - it's the original 1956 body and chassis combination that Peter changed for Chris in 1960, and then sold out the back door, it's chassis number, even today, is TOK's, as I understand it - the 1956 original version of TOK......This chapp came to Chris' book signing in Ledbury two years ago and presented Chris with the numberplate to sign! He set out the history of the car in his ownership for me, I have it in a letter. He used a TR engine, yes I KNOW they were ALL "Triumph" engines, but his came from a crashed TR, not from a Morgan source.

For interest, Jim Tucker was working on a history of "Super Sports" cars for about 5 years before his untimely death. All his notes, programmes, photographs etc have passed to me, and I am of course sharing everything with Jake. I suspect, as the classics would have it - this one will - "Run and Run"!

[Guy Loveridge]

P.S. When John Atkins owned two of the SLR's in the 1970's/1980's he reversed their identities. NOT deliberately but by accident. John told me this only came to light when Simon's car returned to the UK. John also had a "new" body built for one during his ownership, as he had a pretty devastating garage fire, it destroyed a lot of parts for his Cobra, but luckily not the car as he was able to get it out before any serious damage was done, and the SLR bodily. John told me all this over coffee at "Race Retro" a few years ago. John also owned a purple (His House Colour) "Super Sportsized" Morgan. He gave me a lovely original painting of it from 3 or 4 angles when I acted in his emigration sale from Cropredy back in 2001.


Just to add ammusement to this all!

[Mark Shears]

Morning Guy,

I didn't know your connection with John Atkins. (There is a lot I didn't know!) But living and working near to Johns house in Cropedy we knew one another and I had off him/bought all his Morgan related ephemera before he went,like XRX, to South Africa! I was a rare Morgan nut and so got on well with him!

One of the items was a quite big landscape photograph of Chris Lawrence racing TOK.I always wondered where and when this was taken and a few years ago spent a fascinating half a day with Chris and his wife.(My daughter interviewed him for her 'A' Level Design & Technology project.)

I took along the photograph and when he saw it immediately asked where I had got it. I explained and he jumped up and said follow me. We went into the snooker room, which leads into his garage, and there above the door was a massive blown up version of my photograph! He said it was taken at Goodwood c. 1960 and he didn't know how John had come by this photograph which he promptly signed for me with much enthusiasm!

Cheers all,

Mark

[John Clarke]

A cautionary tale - "4 KYD" was the number plate 'adopted' by Adam Bridgland. Adam first put 4 KYD on his high line +4. When he bought a '67 Supersports, that car became 4 KYD. Adam didn't get on with the SS, so in '68 bought one of the first +8s, registered.....4 KYD. So three Morgans, with 3 different body styles and 3 different engines all "4 KYD". All the cars still exist but only the +8 carries the registration plate, 4 KYD.

On purchasing the '67 Supersports, it was registered JTM 545F. After racing it for many years, and still do, I sold a flat rad +4 to the Channel Islands with the reg HPY 849. As the new owner had no more use for the registration plate, I transferred it onto my Supersports. So, one SS with 3 registration numbers. I have 3 'log' books all referring to the same chassis number but with 3 registration plates. And as Bruce says, the original blue log book has 4 KYD crossed out by hand and JTM 545F written in. The V5 just had JTM 545F and the new V5C, just has HPY 849......no reference to previous numbers....and by the way, the car has been dropped off a boat (new chassis), restored (new chassis) and crashed heavily by me...you've guessed it....new chassis.

I suspect this is a typical story of a racing Morgan and of owners clinging onto a 'personal' registration plate...... it will confuse the hell out of us all a few decades down the line......I wonder whether my SS will be considered as a re bodied flat rad!!!!

john