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Inspired by Andy Garlicks memory I thought I would make a request for any information or knowledge of John Binns...

I am researching the history of a 1952 Plus Four Flat Rad that had a distinguished rally,race and hilclimb/sprint competition history from 1952 onwards.

It was the lead car of 3 semi-works Plus Fours that were known as Lightweights and built by the factory for 3 leading rally drivers of the day to compete inthe RAC Rally and the Alpine Trial (Rallye des Alpes.)

It was registered KUY 475 and was subsequently owned and raced by John (Vincent) Binns from the middle to the late sixties.

There is a picture of John racing the car (in modified form) at Silverstone in around 1967 in the green Harvey book on Morgans and I understand he was a keen racer of the car which although modified for racing always kept its chrome radiator ie. it was never converted to a cowled front with faired in headlamps like many of the early Plus Fours.

So the question is does anyone remember or know of John Binns - Morgan racer of a Flat Rad in the 1960's?

Cheers

Mark

Is there anything in Jake Alderson's latest book? I have loaned my copy so cannot check but it does cover Plus 4s in that period.

Mary I was hoping you or John might have known or remembered him.

The excellent Alderson/Chapman books have much information in Volume 1- up to 1953 and Vol 2 - in the early years but it finishes at 1960. As far as I know they haven't published their third volume which will cover the early sixties.

I am led to believe John Binns raced through the mid-Sixties until the end of the decade (he sold the car in 1971.) He was then living in Earl Shilton - close to Mallory Park and not far away from Tony Lees!

Cheers

Mark

Mark,

Can I suggest an e-mail to Roger Bonsall it might help, let me know if you haven’t got his address.

Richard.

Mark- I've PMed you with what may be the adress of his wife,

John

John and Richard,

Thank you both for your help.

Richard - I have contacted Roger who does vaguely remember John Binns but not KUY 475. He is going to look back through his old programs and results!

John - thanks for that. It could well tie in with the info. I have.

Also heard back from the Morgan factory on Monday who have confirmed the original chassis records and forwarded my enquiry to Jake Alderson who has emailed back confirming it is a famous lightweight rally car.

Any further info. gratefully received!

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark

I'm intrigued!! What made it light weight?

john

Hi John,

It was panelled in aluminium and fitted with bucket seats. They also had black 5" Rev Counters fitted (courtesy of Standard Triumph - who also entered and bank rolled them on the Alpine Rally.) The engines were tuned for performance and two of them were also fitted with twin SU carburettors.

All three cars, KUY 474, 475 and 476 were painted ivory white with red leather interior and matching red wheels. Apparently contemporary reports say they looked "marvellous running together as a team".

Cheers

Mark

and two of them were also fitted with twin SU carburettors

aka the '52 Le Mans car (KUY 387???????). Though I sometimes wonder whether 387 was the LM car as it turns up in later photos looking very standard and loosing the Ivan Waller mods. Mmmm. There's another conundrum....back to the wandering number plate saga again me thinks

(should this topic be better sited under the +4 banner?)

Jake Alderson certainly believes that the '52 Le Mans car was KUY387 (in twin carb spec) but in conversation, Peter Morgan was always very vague about it (!!)

Not long after it got rebuilt into later Cowled rad spec

regards

Keith

Quote “They also had black 5" Rev Counters fitted” ~ so the rev counter fitted to NYF 452 was “original” in black before I had it refurbished and re-painted cream – oh well – Melvyn please repaint it Black.
Barry

Hi John and Keith,

I don't think KUY 387 exists now - certainly not anywhere near its original form. I think John you traced its susequent history? It was built at the same time as the 3 Alpine cars and was the first to update to the TR2 engine.

John we can move the topic to the 4 cylinder banner - but I thought I might cast a wider net in trying to establish whether anyone had heard of or even knew the enigmatic John Binns!

Cheers

Mark

Mark,

KUY 387 sort of does exist in the USA. In 1952 form the car had chassis number P2316 but by 1963 the chassis was very tired so Peter Morgan (who still owned the car) pulled a chassis off the production line which was 5092
so the 1952 car became by accident a 1963 car!! the car is now painted in Alfa Romeo green and has been owned by Craig Runions for a long time.

Richard

Got to love the factory!
Who else would end up with a 63 chassis number on a 52 car!

Hi Richard,

I didn't know that! Out of interest the chassis number of KUY 475 is P.2318.

As for swopping chassis numbers about I don't think the Morgan factory (or dealers and racing drivers of same) were alone in period. In fact where would you start?

No don't answer that question!

Cheers

Mark